Suggestions (Barbarian techs)

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Re: Suggestions (Barbarian techs)

Post by ElAlmugavar on Fri 17 Dec 2010 - 11:46

The barbarians are the natives:
you can add the Turkomans and Nubian.
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Re: Suggestions (Barbarian techs)

Post by peugeot407 on Fri 17 Dec 2010 - 22:02

At the moment we have the Sudanese as our black African Barbarians, but perhaps it would be better to call them Nubians, I'm not sure.


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Re: Suggestions (Barbarian techs)

Post by spangopola on Mon 20 Dec 2010 - 14:04

Maybe Nubian is the term most people are more common with.

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Re: Suggestions (Barbarian techs)

Post by peugeot407 on Mon 20 Dec 2010 - 20:26

I'm sure, but when you say Nubian, most people start thinking about mercenaries in Ancient Egypt, which is a rich 1000 years before our timescale.


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Re: Suggestions (Barbarian techs)

Post by The Dude on Tue 21 Dec 2010 - 4:02

I thought Nubia was a region of Africa?

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Re: Suggestions (Barbarian techs)

Post by Hoop Thrower on Fri 8 Apr 2011 - 8:00

They may be a little bit too far from your mod's main scene, but the Mali Empire was pretty big during the medieval times and there's extensive information about their military units, so maybe you'd like to have them as natives, err, barbarians...

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Re: Suggestions (Barbarian techs)

Post by Harkimo on Thu 14 Apr 2011 - 3:17

Yeah, that's too far off I think.
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Re: Suggestions (Barbarian techs)

Post by Paco the Great on Sun 15 May 2011 - 4:48

Persians should get some Zoroastrian techs.
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Re: Suggestions (Barbarian techs)

Post by peugeot407 on Sun 15 May 2011 - 10:12

That would indeed be a good idea. We should prevent it from having too much to do with the Zoroastrian religion choice, but I see possibilities, yes.


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Re: Suggestions (Barbarian techs)

Post by Paco the Great on Fri 20 May 2011 - 5:52

Hum, yes.
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Re: Suggestions (Barbarian techs)

Post by Babri on Mon 19 Sep 2011 - 22:50

To OP : Huns don't match with the timeline of the mod (Medieval Era). There should be Mongols instead of them.

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Re: Suggestions (Barbarian techs)

Post by Pepp on Mon 19 Sep 2011 - 23:15

Well, the idea of Barbarians are the civilizations before Charlemagne and after the Fall of Rome. Beside that, Mongol is a full fledged civ.

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Re: Suggestions (Barbarian techs)

Post by peugeot407 on Tue 20 Sep 2011 - 4:08

Well, the idea of Barbarians are the civilizations before Charlemagne and after the Fall of Rome.

Not quite. The guideline is for them to fall in between the fall of Rome and the Crusades, but the general idea is more important. The Huns were of immense importance in post-Roman Europe, and as such they're in.


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Re: Suggestions (Barbarian techs)

Post by Escodrion on Wed 1 Feb 2012 - 19:24

What about some of the smaller nations from AoK as Barbarians?

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Re: Suggestions (Barbarian techs)

Post by Pepp on Thu 2 Feb 2012 - 0:15

Hmm, what do you mean?

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Re: Suggestions (Barbarian techs)

Post by Escodrion on Thu 2 Feb 2012 - 0:23

Well, you have Huns, Goths, Mongols, etc. and they all have unique units and researches.

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Re: Suggestions (Barbarian techs)

Post by peugeot407 on Thu 2 Feb 2012 - 1:44

In that case, you should be pleased to hear that we do already have much of those civs in. I suppose at this point I should just go through the list of AoE2 civs, and say how we'll treat them.

Aztecs: The Aztecs won't feature in K&B, due to our focus on Europe and the Middle East.
Britons: The Britons will be a subciv in K&B, and they'll also feature in the campaign. The English (which will have the best archery of all civs) will be a playable civ.
Byzantines: The Byzantines will be a playable civ in K&B
Celts: The Celts will be a subciv in K&B.
Chinese: The Chinese will be a subciv in K&B, and they'll also feature in the campaign.
Franks: The Franks will be a subciv in K&B, and the French will be a playable civ.
Goths: The Goths will be a subciv in K&B, as will the Visigoths.
Huns: The Huns will be a subciv in K&B.
Japanese: The Japanese won't feature in K&B, due to our focus on Europe and the Middle East.
Koreans: The Koreans won't feature in K&B, due to our focus on Europe and the Middle East.
Mayans: The Mayans won't feature in K&B, due to our focus on Europe and the Middle East.
Mongols: The Mongols will be a playable civ in K&B.
Persians: The Persians will be a subciv in K&B.
Saracens: The Saracens will be a playable civ in K&B.
Spanish: The Spanish will be a playable civ in K&B.
Teutons: The Teutonic Order will be one of the Knightly Orders* in K&B, and the Germans (Holy Roman Empire) will be a playable civ.
Turks: The Turks will be a playable civ in K&B.
Vikings: The Vikings will be a playable civ in K&B, and the Jutes will be a subciv.


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* = If you want to read more about Knightly Orders, this Friday Update has quite some info on them. They'll be available to all 'Crusading' civs, which are the Crusaders themselves, but also the Germans (to resemble the Baltic Crusades) and Spanish (to resemble the Reconquista).

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Re: Suggestions (Barbarian techs)

Post by Escodrion on Thu 2 Feb 2012 - 2:10

Ok, and will Celts= Scots like in AoK or will they be separate?

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Re: Suggestions (Barbarian techs)

Post by Pepp on Thu 2 Feb 2012 - 2:18

No they don't. Celts will resemble the real celts, as it is in AoK has the woad raider, which histoire realite correct.

Scots will be different. It comes to the game as a unit. Peugeot will explain and fix my fault in this answer.

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Re: Suggestions (Barbarian techs)

Post by peugeot407 on Thu 2 Feb 2012 - 2:25

You sort of make me, yes...

In fact, the Celts will be both Irish and Scottish, but focusing more on the period of the Roman retreat from Britain and the subsequent Anglo-Saxon invasion, rather than the William Wallace-ish time period that is mostly associated with medieval Scotland. That Scotland will feature in this game, but not as a civ, they will feature through mercenaries, of which there will be two, the Highlander (obviously not a copy of the AoE3 unit of the same name, but armed with a sword instead) and the Galloglaich, which I know is sort of half-Scottish-half-Irish, but at least they came from Scotland.


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Re: Suggestions (Barbarian techs)

Post by super7700 on Fri 3 Feb 2012 - 20:18

I find the idea of having Woad Raiders and running around a bit too strange. I know that you want to keep to a theme, but wouldn't it be much better using nations that actually existed during the period that this mod takes place in rather than extremely archaic civs that really should only appear in the Tilanus' Ancient Age mod (it was his mod, isn't it?), which looks dead anyway?

Here are some ideas for more modern sub-civs and what they focus on:

- Burgundians (field artillery and mercenaries)
- Bohemians (militia, war wagons and Hussite beliefs)
- Normans (cavalry, fortification perhaps?)
- Gaels (should replace the Celts; however I'm not sure about what they'd focus on)
- Welsh (should replace the Britons; skirmishers, stealth and hunting)
- Cumans (a bit pointless maybe if you have the Mongols; raiding, archery, light cavalry)
- Rus' (since the Slavs are based on the Poles; can't think of a focus for them though)

Keep the barbarians if you want to, but just don't throw away all of the historical accuracy. So no woad raiders please NOOOOO!!!! ! Perhaps you could have both barbarians and some more modern sub-civs.

I have some ideas for techs and units for some of those sub-civs so if you would like me to go into more detail about them, please say so.
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Re: Suggestions (Barbarian techs)

Post by Pepp on Fri 3 Feb 2012 - 20:34

I find the idea of having Woad Raiders and running around a bit too strange. I know that you want to keep to a theme, but wouldn't it be much better using nations that actually existed during the period that this mod takes place in rather than extremely archaic civs that really should only appear in the Tilanus' Ancient Age mod (it was his mod, isn't it?), which looks dead anyway?

The team council decided that natives should be post Rome empires and kingdoms and barbarian tribes. So it is not archaic, as they are there after the fall of Rome (happening in the Dark Age, which is before the Early Medieval). Only Chinese (Han) and Jews come from the timeline.

- Burgundians (field artillery and mercenaries)
- Bohemians (militia, war wagons and Hussite beliefs)
- Normans (cavalry, fortification perhaps?)
- Gaels (should replace the Celts; however I'm not sure about what they'd focus on)
- Welsh (should replace the Britons; skirmishers, stealth and hunting)
- Cumans (a bit pointless maybe if you have the Mongols; raiding, archery, light cavalry)
- Rus' (since the Slavs are based on the Poles; can't think of a focus for them though)

Number one used for another else, I don't know for number two but it will not be a subciv, Norman is English (remember William?), Gaels is Ancient, Welsh is the part of English, Cumans used for another else, and Rus' used for another else.

In fact, woad raider can be replaced with a Celtic unit from Post Rome and Pre Middle age. But only if somebody can found, as I can't even find another that is better, escept that 0 A.D. units...

And if you have ideas for sub civs that is decided by KnB, please post them. Don't know them? Ask Peugeot407 at 03414076307 Send PM to Peugeot.

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Re: Suggestions (Barbarian techs)

Post by super7700 on Fri 3 Feb 2012 - 20:56

Some of the barbarians are pretty archaic - the Huns had been gone for around 300 years before this mod starts, so had the Britons, and the Celts, and the Visigoths.

The Normans weren't just going around England and Normandy (remember Robert Guiscard?), but you are right that they shouldn't be a sub-civ as they can be easily covered by the English, and I guess they same can be said for the Welsh, though they did stay independent for some time. The Gaels came after the Celts by the way. Maybe the gallogliach and another unit, the kerne, can be made available for the Gaels/Celts, though that isn't pre-medieval (but why does it have to be?).
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Re: Suggestions (Barbarian techs)

Post by peugeot407 on Fri 3 Feb 2012 - 21:03

The start of the timeline for this mod is 476 AD, the year in which Rome fell. The Huns hadn't been gone for 300 years then.

@Pepp: The "Dark Ages", if you want to call them that, are the Early Middle Ages.


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Re: Suggestions (Barbarian techs)

Post by super7700 on Sat 4 Feb 2012 - 9:05

However, most of the nations you have picked for this mod are very much post 900 AD - the French certainly did not exist at 476 AD, nor did the Flemish, English, Spanish, Germans, Polish, Danish, Moors, Turks or Saracens. Also, the first soldiers available to factions in your mod have equipment from the 12th century such as pot helmets.
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