what is the SOUL?

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what is the SOUL?

Post by iliander on Thu 18 Jul 2013 - 3:52

THERE ARE 2 PARTS OF YOU:

1. awareness
2. ability to think/act

you cannot think/act without awareness. you can be aware without ability to think/act. awareness can never reach 0 because it is impossible for you to imagine that you are completely unaware. the ability to think/act is what allows you to increase or decrease awareness. AWARENESS CANNOT REACH 0 BECAUSE YOU CAN ALWAYS BE AWARE OF YOUR OWN AWARENESS WHEN THERE ARE NO EXTERNAL FACTORS TO BE AWARE OF. that explains the immortality of the "soul". AWARENESS IS HIGHER THAN ABILITY TO THINK/ACT,

what people call "consciousness" is the awareness of awareness. which is the awareness of you. which means the awareness is you. DOES THIS MEAN THE ABILITY TO THINK/ACT IS NOT PART OF YOU??? confused here for a moment.

THE SOUL IS AN INFINITELY SMALL "PHYSICAL" POINT THAT IS NOT PHYSICAL BECAUSE IT IS INFINITELY SMALL. SOMETHING THAT IS INFINITELY SMALL CANNOT BE DESTROYED BY ANYTHING AND CAN SURVIVE THE LAWS OF PHYSICS. IN OTHER WORDS IT IS NOT PHYSICAL. or am I wrong here???

quickly wrote this down. let's use this topic to discuss this.
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Re: what is the SOUL?

Post by Pepp on Thu 18 Jul 2013 - 6:04

Another lecture yea? Why don't you post it in WotTA too? There are many people attracted to it rather than there.

I like your theory, just that. Haha.

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Re: what is the SOUL?

Post by iliander on Thu 18 Jul 2013 - 7:27

But I am permanently banned from WotTA... JUST KIDDING.

You are right, I will create the thread there.
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Re: what is the SOUL?

Post by peugeot407 on Thu 18 Jul 2013 - 7:29

Actually, I'm delighted you chose to make the topic here, ili. We desperately need some more activity on these forums, so I don't mind at all...


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Re: what is the SOUL?

Post by iliander on Thu 18 Jul 2013 - 7:46

peugeot407 wrote:Actually, I'm delighted you chose to make the topic here, ili. We desperately need some more activity on these forums, so I don't mind at all...
I just remember that is the reason why I posted it here... Severe Laughter:
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Re: what is the SOUL?

Post by Synecdoche on Thu 18 Jul 2013 - 12:10

Huh, well, the language barrier might be kicking in a bit here or your formatting may just be confusing me, but I'll take a shot at this.

Soul "dust": seems to be very Philip Pullman, have you read his books? The basic gist of the idea (though it's in a work of fiction) is that soul consciousness is a gathering of infinitesimally small fragments of a cosmic consciousness, and all self-aware beings are individual in life, but their "soul" scatters upon death into a more disassociated and encompassing state, related to Plato's Forms. Each individual is a gathering of consciousness, or soul motes, which form an individual by consensus and through environmental factors until they are again released by death to spread back into the life cycles of the universe. It's much more poetic in the stories, though.

I'm of the opinion that syllogism does not apply to abstract concepts, but in regard to the awareness thing, many creatures can think and act, but not all are self-aware. The creatures that are self-aware, however, are so in very different ways. A large aspen grove (a single interconnected entity) can consciously cut certain diseased trees off from communion with the rest of the root network to quarantine certain tree-illnesses, for example, which shows a somewhat advanced amount of self-knowledge without even the possession of a nervous system. Dolphins, Whales, and Birds in the genus Corvus, especially the American Crow, have extremely nuanced and communicative languages that you can apply human linguistics analysis to without any form of contradiction. Monkeys and elephants can use mirrors to check their own appearance, and all kinds of high-functioning animals have death rituals and advanced social hierarchies. A fly, which to all intents and purposes is not self-aware like the preceding animals, can still think and act, but has no drive other than survival until mating is completed. So, mental and physical action is tied to little prerequisite other than life itself, but awareness needs something a little more, though humanity is not at all required.
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Re: what is the SOUL?

Post by iliander on Thu 18 Jul 2013 - 21:02

Synecdoche wrote:Huh, well, the language barrier might be kicking in a bit here or your formatting may just be confusing me, but I'll take a shot at this.

Soul "dust": seems to be very Philip Pullman, have you read his books? The basic gist of the idea (though it's in a work of fiction) is that soul consciousness is a gathering of infinitesimally small fragments of a cosmic consciousness, and all self-aware beings are individual in life, but their "soul" scatters upon death into a more disassociated and encompassing state, related to Plato's Forms. Each individual is a gathering of consciousness, or soul motes, which form an individual by consensus and through environmental factors until they are again released by death to spread back into the life cycles of the universe. It's much more poetic in the stories, though.

I'm of the opinion that syllogism does not apply to abstract concepts, but in regard to the awareness thing, many creatures can think and act, but not all are self-aware. The creatures that are self-aware, however, are so in very different ways. A large aspen grove (a single interconnected entity) can consciously cut certain diseased trees off from communion with the rest of the root network to quarantine certain tree-illnesses, for example, which shows a somewhat advanced amount of self-knowledge without even the possession of a nervous system. Dolphins, Whales, and Birds in the genus Corvus, especially the American Crow, have extremely nuanced and communicative languages that you can apply human linguistics analysis to without any form of contradiction. Monkeys and elephants can use mirrors to check their own appearance, and all kinds of high-functioning animals have death rituals and advanced social hierarchies. A fly, which to all intents and purposes is not self-aware like the preceding animals, can still think and act, but has no drive other than survival until mating is completed. So, mental and physical action is tied to little prerequisite other than life itself, but awareness needs something a little more, though humanity is not at all required.
I haven't read any book on this subject. But I don't agree with the idea, an individual in its purest form cannot be a gathering of multiple things, it fights with the whole idea that an individual itself cannot "not exist".

I agree with the second part, for example humans are given an additional ability that is not caused simply by increased intelligence, as humanity is a progress and not a cycle as with all other living creatures. Humans cannot simply be evolved from apes simply by natural evolution, it is clear there has to be an external factor involved for humanity to be able to break out of the natural cycle.
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Re: what is the SOUL?

Post by Synecdoche on Thu 18 Jul 2013 - 21:59

I do not think humans are markedly different biologically than other animals. Our great discovery that allowed us to expand our intelligence and culture was the manipulation of fire, in some very new studies that have come out recently that I'm very supportive of. Cooking releases a ridiculous amount of newly digestible kilocalories in foods, and the freed-up time as a result of a lessened hunting regimen allowed different natural selectivity and the time required to create innovations in domestication and eventually agriculture. While a gorilla, which are extremely intelligent in captivity with all of their needs provided as Koko has shown, has to eat raw plants all day to maintain their huge body mass while watching for predators, a human can smoke the corpse of an antelope that it has run down and eat for weeks with no worries about starvation, and the cooking means that that antelope's corpse will surrender far more of its nutritional value.
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Re: what is the SOUL?

Post by iliander on Fri 19 Jul 2013 - 2:32

Synecdoche wrote:I do not think humans are markedly different biologically than other animals. Our great discovery that allowed us to expand our intelligence and culture was the manipulation of fire, in some very new studies that have come out recently that I'm very supportive of. Cooking releases a ridiculous amount of newly digestible kilocalories in foods, and the freed-up time as a result of a lessened hunting regimen allowed different natural selectivity and the time required to create innovations in domestication and eventually agriculture. While a gorilla, which are extremely intelligent in captivity with all of their needs provided as Koko has shown, has to eat raw plants all day to maintain their huge body mass while watching for predators, a human can smoke the corpse of an antelope that it has run down and eat for weeks with no worries about starvation, and the cooking means that that antelope's corpse will surrender far more of its nutritional value.
Yes, but monkeys won't develop into creatures with advanced science etc because of fire.

The fact that humanity was able to break out of the natural cycle and basically dominate the world shows there has to be an external factor involved. The "gods". We lost most of our fur, we became weaker, and apes are still around. It's anything but darwinian evolution.

This is starting to get off topic though.
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Re: what is the SOUL?

Post by Synecdoche on Fri 19 Jul 2013 - 5:50

Respectfully disagree with your reasoning, but I'll not go further offtopic.

As a parting, related comment, though, you should research human endurance compared to orher animals and the evolutionary benefits of less fur/sweating mechanisms.
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