If Indonesia Never Gets Its Independence

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If Indonesia Never Gets Its Independence

Post by Pepp on Fri 21 Jun 2013 - 21:42

If Indonesia Never Gets Its Independence
How it could happen and what will happen


Robert wrote:If only it were pre-1947, then I'd have lived in the same country as you two... Still, I suppose this isn't the ideal place to discuss it, there's The Inn for this sort of small talk...

Even wrote:Btw, it would be interesting to imagine an alternate history where the struggle of power in Indonesia happens less violently...

What if there were no such thing named WWII? Then there will be no Japanese's Hakko I Chiu. What if there were no such thing named Hakko I Chiu? Then Japan will never invade Indonesia? And then? Then there will be no such thing named Proclamation.

But back in some more decade, how if there were no Budi Utomo organization? How if the Youth Pledge never made?

The main thing will happen is... THERE WILL BE NO INDONESIA. What will exist is just a province, or maybe some provinces or a satellite state named Netherlands-Indie. And, what will happen next?

Or, if proclamation was happened but the Union of the Netherlands-Indonesia never ceased to exist, what will happen next?




What will happen if we are one country, according to me:
1. Jakarta will stay as several towns, such as Pluit, Batavia, Weltervreden, and Meester Cornelis. Probably a sea wall like in Amsterdam will be built, avoiding floods like as it happens now. Next, no skyscraper will be built there and the Kota Tua preserved well.
2. Communism will never emerged.
3. The majority will be Javanese and Dutch, instead of just Javanese like now. There will be native (Bumiputra or pribumi), Chinese (Tionghua Peranakan), and Dutch.
4. The national language will be Dutch language, and if the Youth Pledge did happen, Indonesian will be a secondary language.
5. No Garuda Pancasila, Indonesia Raya, Sang Saka Merah Putih, or those other Indonesian pride things.
6. No Indonesian heroes. Cut Nyak Dhien, Diponegoro, Antasari, Tuanku Imam Bonjol, and other heroes will be seen as villain in history lesson.
7. Travels between the Netherlands and Indonesia will be very easy.
8. IF Malaysia existed, they will never be able to claim anything from Indonesia, as they are Netherlands'.
9. Bambang Pamungkas will play together with Wesley Sneijder. Razz 
10. There is a possibility of minority oligarch and majority under pressure (Christian over Muslim, Dutch over pribumi).
11. More things to be added.




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Re: If Indonesia Never Gets Its Independence

Post by peugeot407 on Fri 21 Jun 2013 - 23:44

I think Indonesia would have gained its independence eventually, as a sister country within the Kingdom of the Netherlands. In a way, Indonesia would end up a bit like Australia; independent and responsible for its own international relations, but sharing the same monarch and having an exceptionally good relationship with its sister country in Europe. However, Indonesia would not be in one piece. The South Mollucas, Aceh/Sumatra and Netherlands New Guinea would to all likelihood be independent nations with the same status as Indonesia, leaving the Kingdom of the Netherlands like this (assuming we never made the idiotic decision to give Suriname independence against the will of the locals and amended the succession laws of Luxembourg to allow a female monarch):



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Re: If Indonesia Never Gets Its Independence

Post by Pepp on Sat 22 Jun 2013 - 1:40

If I follow your idea, then I think it would be Aceh (just Aceh), Indonesia (the rest of Sumatra, Borneo, Java, Celebes, Bali, North Moluccas, and Nusa Tenggara), South Moluccas, and Netherlands New Guinea.

But Aceh just won't use that silly flag, they will "force" you to let them use their Royal Sultanates Flag. 

However, regarding the South Moluccas, as you stated they are responsible for its own international relation and in any way independent, it would be quite hard for them to get some export. This is contradict to your Indonesia or Sumatra, which has plenty place to grow anything, or especially New Guinea, which has gold mines.

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Re: If Indonesia Never Gets Its Independence

Post by peugeot407 on Sat 22 Jun 2013 - 1:52

Well, I don't know if that would apply to all countries within the realm, it would rather depend on the possibilities. Indonesia would be easily capable to take care of its own defence, while the South Moluccas would indeed struggle. Let's take a look at your neighbours. Singapore is an independent country that is responsible for its own defence, but in the very unlikely case that Singapore were to be attacked, the vast majority of its military would come from its British allies... The same would go for the South Mollucas.


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Re: If Indonesia Never Gets Its Independence

Post by Pepp on Sat 22 Jun 2013 - 2:13

I see, but economically? I believe Australia relies on its own economy, not British's or Singapore's. As far as I aware, there is no important natural resources in South Moluccas.

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Re: If Indonesia Never Gets Its Independence

Post by peugeot407 on Sat 22 Jun 2013 - 2:15

Nor does Liechtenstein, but they're doing alright for themselves... Just lower the corporate tax rate and large corporations will be aching for a chance to move their operations to your country.


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Re: If Indonesia Never Gets Its Independence

Post by Pepp on Sat 22 Jun 2013 - 3:00

Yeah, Singapore is small too... But the most important for me, Jakarta won't be under the sea...

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Re: If Indonesia Never Gets Its Independence

Post by Even on Sat 29 Jun 2013 - 17:57

Nice Very Happy And I'd agree with Pepp... With you Dutch's irrigation engineering, there might not be any more floods in Jakarta (which happens like, every 5 years... lol)

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Re: If Indonesia Never Gets Its Independence

Post by peugeot407 on Sat 29 Jun 2013 - 19:05

You'd need to dig half the city up though... The key to drainage is not to make the water magically disappear (which would be impossible), but to channel it away from places where it would be harmful towards places where it can safely flow into the sea. Since, as far as I'm aware, almost every single square centimetre of Jakarta has a building of sorts on it, I'd say it would be difficult. Well, you could build some underground drainage channels, but that wouldn't exactly be cheap either, and you'd need some very expensive pumps to make sure these underground channels actually get emptied...


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Re: If Indonesia Never Gets Its Independence

Post by Pepp on Sat 29 Jun 2013 - 20:04

Jokowi tried to do the last sentence of yours, making underground channels. He also tried to dig up some old situ and crushing uninvited people living on it.

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Re: If Indonesia Never Gets Its Independence

Post by Even on Sun 30 Jun 2013 - 0:19

Which causes some uproar XD Well, at least he did some good work out there... XD

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Re: If Indonesia Never Gets Its Independence

Post by Pepp on Sun 30 Jun 2013 - 13:40

The problem with those demonstrators are they wanted a puppet leader of their, who works as they want, not a good leader who works for Jakarta. In New Order era we said, "Kill 'em all."

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Re: If Indonesia Never Gets Its Independence

Post by Hoop Thrower on Mon 1 Jul 2013 - 10:06

Odds are it would end the same as Suriname, becoming independant during the 70s like all those colonial remainings that did during that decade (Angola, Spanish Guinea, etc...)


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Re: If Indonesia Never Gets Its Independence

Post by peugeot407 on Mon 1 Jul 2013 - 10:12

It's not so much "did" as "were unwisely forced to do so by the US". Bloody Americans...


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Re: If Indonesia Never Gets Its Independence

Post by Even on Tue 9 Jul 2013 - 1:46

Indeed xD

And I believe that the Netherlanders are ultimately bent by the Americans to call off their pursuits on us, no? lol America xD

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Re: If Indonesia Never Gets Its Independence

Post by Pepp on Tue 9 Jul 2013 - 1:55

No, not America that time, just a decision of Sukarno to demolish all Dutchness there and broke the Union with the Netherlands. But I find something ironic, having two Indonesian here, no one choose for independence...

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Re: If Indonesia Never Gets Its Independence

Post by peugeot407 on Tue 9 Jul 2013 - 6:22

The Americans stopped us taking back our empire after the war, same thing they did with the British, the French and the Portuguese, but if they'd been honest about their desires for decolonisation, they would have given all their states west of the original Thirteen Colonies back to the Native Americans and Mexicans... People tend to forget that Java was as much a part of the Netherlands as Texas is of the US. Difference is they held on to Texas while we had to let Java go. I call it hypocrisy...


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Re: If Indonesia Never Gets Its Independence

Post by Pepp on Tue 9 Jul 2013 - 12:22

People tend to forget that Java was as much a part of the Netherlands as Texas is of the US.
Ah, this is fun thing.

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Re: If Indonesia Never Gets Its Independence

Post by Even on Tue 30 Jul 2013 - 1:16

Indeed so.. I guess American generals are being the bigheads they are then (some laughter ensued) XD

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Re: If Indonesia Never Gets Its Independence

Post by Pepp on Tue 30 Jul 2013 - 18:56

Just realized something: If Indonesia still unified under the influence of Majapahit empire, these will happen:
1. Indonesia turned a rich country, yet strong. Spice is so important that we could make ourselves really wealthy.
2. We turned a Hindu country. With a second majority of Buddhist, there will be no Christian minority neither Muslim majority.
3. There is a possibility that we will turn into a country similar to Thailand.
4. We have suck history lesson at school.

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Re: If Indonesia Never Gets Its Independence

Post by Even on Fri 9 Aug 2013 - 15:17

But that wouldn't happen...

(Anyways, a new realisation: The weakening of Majapahit is basically what brought Islam into a powerful power in Java (i.e., The Sultanate of Demak), and throughout Indonesia... Otherwise, Islam in Indonesia would be powered only by the farflung Malay powers, i.e., Samudra Pasai, Atjeh, etc.... A genuine question: Where does the missionaries who brought Islam to Gowa-Tallo and Makassar comes from, tho?)

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Re: If Indonesia Never Gets Its Independence

Post by Pepp on Mon 12 Aug 2013 - 17:29

Look, the Independence Day is coming closer to us... beware, you Dutchess.

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Re: If Indonesia Never Gets Its Independence

Post by Even on Mon 12 Aug 2013 - 18:02

Cutting this bit off... Srry Pepp, srry mods and admins :p
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Anyways, yeaa, the 17th of August is nearing... Got a part as our school's choir for the flag ceremony, so that's great Very Happy


Last edited by Even on Mon 12 Aug 2013 - 19:20; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Kinda off-topic anyways :p)

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Re: If Indonesia Never Gets Its Independence

Post by Pepp on Mon 12 Aug 2013 - 19:20

Regarding your quiz...

NEVER.GO.OFF.TOPIC



please,
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Re: If Indonesia Never Gets Its Independence

Post by Even on Mon 12 Aug 2013 - 19:22

I've cut the bit sir, I'll guarantee that you won't have any problem about it in the thread trolololo xD

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